We Watch TV
We Watch TV is a podcast where we (Hope and Daniel) watch TV and then talk about it. We bring our own brand of weird humor and obscure references to the various shows and topics we discuss. This ranty and tangent filled podcast is just for you if you like commentary on current streaming TV and rewatches of old shows with spoilers and laughs.
We Watch TV
We Watch TV Episode 127 – Stranger Things Series Finale
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Happy New Year! In this episode of We Watch TV, Hope and Daniel recap their not so magical holiday break. The hosts also talk about the latest Knives Out movie before diving into the upside down one last time to chat about the last episodes of Stranger Things season five, including the series finale!
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:11:17) Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery
(00:17:08) Upcoming Shows
(00:18:52) Stranger Things season 5 volume 2
(00:40:24) Stranger Things series finale
(01:06:38) Conformity Gate
Music by yourtunes from Pixabay
Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/wewatchtvpodcast
Testing one, two, testing one, two. Can you give me like a the voices within which you would actually use when you were talking to me?
SPEAKER_03:Testing one, too.
SPEAKER_00:Hey everybody, and welcome to We Watch TV. It is the podcast about the TV that we watch. I am Daniel. She is Hope. This is episode 127. Happy 2026. Here we are. It's January for the next 45 to 50 days.
SPEAKER_02:January always takes forever.
SPEAKER_00:Hope is gonna be a little low volume today. She's um been sick for a month and a half. Merry Christmas and a happy new year. Um if we can't, I'm gonna. She'll probably sound to you guys a little bit louder because I'm gonna push her audio up in post, but in recording, she's definitely lower than usual. How are you feeling?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I don't know. It's been it's been a time. So we had Christmas. Well, we had a our start to our Christmas like vacation, the time off that we took, started off good and then it wasn't. Um what'd we do to begin things before it all went downhill?
SPEAKER_00:Uh we took a little short trip to our favorite vacation spot. Um it's a little known place. Most of you probably aren't aware of it, uh, Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida.
SPEAKER_02:That is the closest I've ever been to Disney before right before Christmas. And that's the last time I think I'll ever go that close before Christmas because while it was super fun to see, and you can see the parks like decorated like usually in November for like Magic Kingdom, but like Epcot, like because food and wine lasts so long, you don't the Epcot um festival, the holidays, doesn't begin till like right after Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So we couldn't really see that. The last time I had seen some of the Epcot Christmas decorations was when they were still up when we did our marathon.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that's after Christmas.
SPEAKER_02:So it was like after Christmas, and I was really tired because you know I ran a marathon, so it wasn't quite the same. Um, but it was it was a really fun trip, a fun experience, weirdest flight home ever.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I don't know what was up with that. Maybe it was just the day of the week and the time that we were flying and the time of year. What was it, like 15 people on a flight?
SPEAKER_02:It was like 15 passengers, and I wouldn't call it the day of the week and the time of the year, because it was we flew home Friday, December 19th, which is widely known as the start of one of the busiest travel weekends.
SPEAKER_00:But it's just nobody was going from where no everybody was probably going to Orlando, not from Orlando.
SPEAKER_02:Not to like frigid Columbus because it was pretty warm when we were down there for like, you know, sometimes it can get colder in December and January time at Disney. We had what I would call perfect weather.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect weather.
SPEAKER_02:So perfect weather, warm, but not overly hot. And I guess no one wanted to take that super early flight out. I don't know, like TSA, like everyone was super friendly and in good moods. At that's the nicest.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, by the way, yeah, it was the nicest MCO experience I have ever been in.
SPEAKER_02:So weird. Like they were all just like feeling super festive, and then we get on the plane and they're like, everyone has to sit up front for like weight distribution or something. And then I look around and I'm like, wow, and they're like, Yeah, this is a 15-passenger flight.
SPEAKER_00:On a plane that seats like 175 people. Yeah, it was like a normal very empty.
SPEAKER_02:And my guess is the reason why our flight wasn't canceled or merged with another is because they needed that plane to get people from Columbus to Orlando.
SPEAKER_00:Um it was probably full to the brim on on its next flight.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like that was our probably like our because I know Southwest is changing their policy, which has already changed, I guess. So maybe that was like our send-off to Southwest, like a private almost plan.
SPEAKER_00:No more fun times.
SPEAKER_02:But then it wasn't fun after that. I started feeling bad. Then I got better and was still like stuffy. We were able to have a and I tested negative for like all the stuff, and we were able to have like a decent Christmas, I would say. Christmas Eve. We went to my parents' party, we hosted at our house. No one, to my knowledge, has come down with any illnesses, so I don't think we had a super survival event. Yeah, well, you have you built different this man, like never gets sick.
SPEAKER_00:Like, so folks, I have been in no way, in no way avoiding it. I have been picking up after her tissues over the place. They're so nice. Just doing all the things, not sick at all.
SPEAKER_02:Still sitting on the couch with me when I'm like hacking. Um, but so December 25th, Christmas. I felt like Christmas evening, I started coughing really bad again. And I'm like, we were watching Four Christmases. Is that what we were watching? Yeah, because we know, or did we watch Stranger Things the first episode?
SPEAKER_00:We didn't watch Stranger Things. We didn't start until yeah, next day.
SPEAKER_02:So we because it dropped at like eight, and that should have been my first clue that I wasn't in the mood to watch that. Um, so we were watching Four Christmases to kind of cap off our Christmas movies, and I started coughing a lot again, and I was like, okay, it's just because I've used my voice so much and I wore myself out because like I was still congested on Christmas Eve, but like I had felt mostly better. But like it was a very busy day because we drove out of town, went to a party, came home, got ready for to host at our house, had people over, people didn't leave. Like it was just like a day of boom, boom, boom. Like, love the holidays, man, making memories, but like so much going on. Like we did, I did the gingerbread houses, which is now you do them like one year, and now I have to do them every year.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So we did those with like all the kids on Christmas Eve. So it was just it was a lot. So I thought, well, you know, and I had kind of a headache Christmas morning. I was like, I'm just I'm just really tired. So then December 26th comes on, and Stranger Things, I was like, we gotta watch it all, or I'm not gonna be able to get on TikTok or do anything. And I like coughing a lot more. And I'm like, is it because volume two um or part season five part two, or they call it volume two, right? I was like, is it because it could have been an email, which we'll get into? I was like, I just don't feel good at all. And then on Saturday, December 27th, I got my Christmas and New Year's gift and tested positive for the dreaded vid. So Merry Christmas, happy New Year's.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it feels like it was a million years ago.
SPEAKER_02:Feels like it was a million years ago. Um everybody that like was there though, um, I have a bone to pick with you people. The people that were there are like open air coughing, hacking, sneezing. Count your days, no.
SPEAKER_00:No, you know, it's always amazing to me the people who I can't imagine feeling the way I felt being there.
SPEAKER_02:I can barely walk down the hall.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, first of all, yeah, feeling like you're feeling and going anywhere. But the people that'll be at a like a table sitting with a with a group of people, and they will turn to cough away from their group, but they're turning into another group of people and coughing straight at them, like and they don't cover their mouth, they're they're just animals.
SPEAKER_02:I remember we were on our way, which by the way, we didn't get to write it. Thank you for that. We were on our way to get our guardian's lightning lane, and this woman, this like old like boomer lady, like turns from her husband, life partner, I don't know, and just hacked right in my face. I'm calling her patient zero. I don't know if I end up if I had the vid the whole time or if I got that wonderful combo. I'm hearing from people with two different viruses. I've asked my nurse friend, she says it's very possible since I have asthma and I'm more like you guys have to realize this. This is my PSA. I'm gonna say my PSA. People with asthma, like just a cold, and air quotes to like normal people, is not the same for those of us with asthma. It can like a normal cold that can like take you up for two days can take me out for like two weeks. So I really wish people would be a little bit more mindful of that, but anyway. So she like um coughs, like literally like in my face. So I don't know if that she was patient zero. I don't know if I had the two virus combo. My friend says it's very possible I could have that bad of luck. And then Sarah Beth's like, so Daniel hasn't been sick at all this entire time. I'm like, no, like one day I felt like you seemed sniffly, but it was just because you're in your basement that's like 40 degrees. Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And when I when we say like let me let me rephrase, there was one morning where I woke up and I felt like, mmm, this could be it. Yeah. But then what happened actually what it actually happened was it was like 70 degrees. And then like 18 hours later, it was 20. I haven't left the confines of this home. Like the differential that took place then is what caused me to feel that way. And like a couple hours of sitting up straight, I was fine.
SPEAKER_02:So I've only the outs the closest I've been to the outside world is like when you open the door to take Marvin out. Um, because obviously I've been quarantining because I'm not moving and if anyone's like, oh, you just said you were at Christmas, no, I was feeling much better, other than just like some of those remaining like sniffles that you get. Like it was so weird. Wasn't it weird? Like the shift.
SPEAKER_00:You seemed like you were completely good, and then you know, Christmas Eve evening, you were like insane.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so uh Merry Christmas. So, how did we spend our new year? Also watching Stranger Things and me coughing and hacking up a line. I've had a lot of soup, a lot of soup, a lot of soup. Um, but yeah, I hope you guys had a good Christmas in New Year's, other than my, you know, plague. Um, how would you describe our holidays?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I mean, that kind of was the holiday, honestly. Like that it kind of engulfed the entire thing. So it was nice. Or caring for somebody who is sick in my case, and having to kind of just deal with that.
SPEAKER_02:This morning, Daniel's like, Didn't you I just open a new box of tissues for you? And I said, Well, yes, you did. And he's like, Then why are you needing another? I'm like, Because I'm producing more mucus than a five foot tall petite woman should have in their body in the course of 45 minutes. We're keeping Kleenex in business.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like I need to put a biohazard sticker on our trash cans when they put them out the this week.
SPEAKER_02:It's just insane. Um yeah, I can't even enjoy like things I like, like my Starbucks. I had like two sips of my drink. So I would really like uh 2026 to you know try to get a little bit better. Um Christmas decorations are still up, so there was that.
SPEAKER_00:Ugh, I shudder every time I think about taking those down.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Well, we did some other stuff. Um before we went to Disney, we did watch a movie, not at the theaters, but in our home. This was back when I knew what breathing was like and I didn't sound like I smoked 50 packs a day. Um go ahead and tell them what movie we watched.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, we watched the third knives out movie. Um Wake Up Dead Man, a Knives Out Mystery, um on Netflix.
SPEAKER_02:I can't remember what day we watched it, but we watched it like right not the day before we left for Disney, but like the day day before the day before.
SPEAKER_00:Um kind of become a every other every couple years Christmas tradition for Ryan Johnson to toss one of these things out on Netflix, and I I'm all for it.
SPEAKER_02:Known what is he, the producer or director of the Star Wars Episode eight, The Last Jedi. The Last Jedi, very controversial movie. But he totally I don't want we know we're a spoiler podcast, but because the holiday season, I don't know if a lot of you have had time to watch Knives Out, and it's the type of movie that like if we spoil it, like I don't think you know how sometimes we spoil an episode, you can go back. Like um John Paul told me like he feels like he's watching Shrinking with us from where he's listened because he's been watching Shrinking. Knives Out's a different situation, but I will say that Ryan Johnson puts a Star Wars joke. It was a good one, too, and it was perfect because we were both like thinking it and then they actually referenced Star Wars.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, it was a good joke, not but just because he had done a Star Wars movie within the world. It would have been a good joke regardless. It would have been a good joke regardless because of just how it framed things up and the thinking of certain people and what it was saying, the commentary it was making about our stars. But then when you realize Yeah, but then when you know who he who the director is, it's like, oh okay, this is even funnier.
SPEAKER_02:Alright, so when it comes to knives out, since I don't want this is my spoiler-free review. I think I feel like the first one is, even though I haven't seen it, you know, since it dropped, is always gonna just have that first magic. It's hard to top the first one. But I do think this is better than the second one, the glass onion one.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, yes, I agree.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I liked this one better, and I don't think that's an unpopular opinion based on what I'm hearing. Um, my second point is they've got to stop making priests hot. Here's another the flea bag, the priest was like, who by the way, yeah, the the hot priest from flea bag is a care another character in this movie. And then the guy that he was in the crown, he played Prince Charles, and they must have had to like kind of you know uggo him up a little bit in the crown. He still kind of has like the ears, but like he looked really good as a priest. And I'm like, you guys have got to stop making hot priests. Like, what are you that's what like decided I was like, we gotta watch Knives Out. Like, we kind of had our feel of our hallmarks, and we were getting ready to go on vacation, unknowingly getting ready to battle the plague for a month, and we were like, let's just go out and watch Knives Out now. But like part of it is because I had seen like TikTok edits with like the hot priest. I was like, we need to see this. Uh number three, the third comment that I will say is I think that some people are going to see the preview for this and think that it is dunking on religion. And I honestly don't think that's the case. I think it's dunking on certain types of people um in the religious community that use religion for bad, if that makes sense, that maybe they're not pure of heart and they don't truly believe in like the gospel or anything like that, kind of like you know, what the gemstones people did. Because there is a scene in it between, you know, hot priest and somebody that I felt really um depicted in a relationship with God and a spiritual connection very well. So don't go it if you're like thinking that you're gonna be like offended, um, I don't think I think like you should be offended at, you know, certain people, maybe like the darkness of certain people in the church. Um or if you're not religious at all, I don't think you're gonna be bothered either way. But I just wanted to put that out. Like, I and I feel like I'm very rambling right now, because again, you guys, I do have the plague. But I'll let Daniel take it from here. Do you understand what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I understand exactly what you're saying. Um, to address um my rankings, I I definitely think this is better than the second one. Uh, I would I I like this one enough that I probably would need to re-watch the first one to make that order because I do think I really enjoyed this one. I saw a really good uh TikTok. Somebody talked about how you can tell when a movie is good when people from both sides of the argument are hating on the the the point of view. And I have seen people who are critical of this movie for being anti-religion, and I have seen people who are critical of this movie for being too pro-religion. Yeah. That actually and I think that comment that I saw on TikTok was very well done is to say that means this movie's really saying something. When it's when you get both of those sides, because usually you'll get one side or the other, and then and but both sides are kind of going at it on this one. Um, and I think that says a lot of good things. And I thought the message of the movie was very good. I enjoyed the all the characters. I really kind it was interesting to me how Ben Wall Blanc, our detective, really was a backseat, almost a backseat character in this movie. But it but it made but it worked, but it worked.
SPEAKER_02:She didn't show up, but we were like a half hour.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so yeah, like I said, because of when this came out, and I do highly recommend people if you've got Netflix, this is a slam dunk, no question. If you've got a free night and you're looking for a movie, this is a great any of the only for Leslie Noaf is a slam dunk. Any of the knives out movies are great, but but if you've seen the other ones, I would highly recommend this one. So we're not gonna spoil it, but very good. I think it had a lot of good things to say. Uh at very time. And a hot priest.
SPEAKER_02:Alright. Um, so I know I just made a Parkston Rec reference.
SPEAKER_00:I'll always make it watching Parkston Rec.
SPEAKER_02:I've been re-watching Parkston Wreck. We've actually been watching a lot of TV um thanks to Sid, you know, the vid and the plague. I actually did finish Emily in Paris. Daniel dipped out of that. Not so much because you wanted to. That whole season could have been an email, my spoiler free review of that, which because I will be talking about that in a future episode. But when you're confined to your house and you can't move across the room without hacking up a lun, you watch a lot of TV. I started and finished season one of I Love LA on Is It HBO, is it Max? I don't know what it's called anymore.
SPEAKER_00:Nobody does.
SPEAKER_02:Go watch that. Um, we're all caught up with ghosts and Abbott Elementary. Um, but all of this is for another podcast to talk about. Oh, oh, and Fallout.
SPEAKER_00:And Fallout. Fallout has started. And we've been catching up with that. We haven't started watching Percy Jackson yet. We're kind of banking, we're kind of letting that one. I need to read those books, really. She says she's gonna read the books before.
SPEAKER_02:I keep getting things life keeps throwing me curveballs.
SPEAKER_00:And then I also have to say, Fallout's good. Fallout is very good. Fallout's really kind I I think you said it. Fallout's like the thing I'm looking forward to right now every week. Yeah. Um, I also have I found another show. It's one of those I probably don't care about it, but you're gonna like it shows, and you said you're gonna watch it. So hope we'll at some point in the near future be starting the um heated rivalry. Heated rivals, heated rivalry.
SPEAKER_02:It's starting to show up on my TikTok. It's also on Is It HBO, is it Max? Nobody knows what it's called. We don't know. Um, but we'll talk about all those in the future podcast episode because the big one ended allegedly. Which we'll get into. Um, that is Stranger Things season five. We got um volume one on Thanksgiving, only had to wait a couple of weeks. By the way, I do not like it when Thanksgiving falls late. Like around, I like it when your birthday is like well after Thanksgiving into the next week, because it felt like we had no time between Thanksgiving and Christmas this year.
SPEAKER_00:Very short.
SPEAKER_02:Um this is why I decorate early, people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so two points here. One from this point forward, spoilers, be aware. If you haven't watched any of Stranger Things season five, or specifically part two and the finale, we're gonna talk about that. Um if you haven't heard our thoughts on season five so far, you can go check out episode one hundred and twenty-four um from December 2nd, 2025. Stranger Things season five so far. What a creative name.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um volume two dropped Christmas evening. Um so just like I got hit with the plague, I also got hit with a very I'm just gonna say it, and this is not we'll talk about the finale. After these are the episodes before the finale. What like it was it would have been episodes five, six, seven?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Six seven. No, no, stop that. Anyway, listen, I'm around kids a lot. Um it was, I'm just gonna say it, a wet fart. Um I feel like there were a lot of scenes from the different episodes of the second half of the season. I hate saying volume two, um, that I liked. But so there was like certain scenes that I really enjoyed. They were great, there were some epic moments that I liked, but when it goes by each episode, I felt like it was just like rehashing everything I had just seen in volume one. I think that this is an example of where Netflix once again did suffer from not putting it out there all at once. You could have still saved the finale, but I don't think people because I feel like there's a lot of people that do feel the same way as we did.
SPEAKER_00:Like these last episodes were kind of like uh I have another suggestion that would have helped them a little bit, and I know a lot of people, including maybe even you, are going to look at me. They should have told them keep the episode length to 45 minutes. No. Because a lot of for me, the first hat part and this second part suffered from standing around con talking about stuff.
SPEAKER_02:That's not really what I'm bothered by because But it's so expositionalist and I know, like just like I know that I was getting sick, but I wasn't getting sick at Thanksgiving, and like I usually am not able to focus on a show and just sit down and watch. I like some of I like in fact, I wanted more character talking.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Give me more of that, less of them. Like, when did Nancy turn into Sylvester Stallone? Like, suddenly, what's that movie? Like Rambo, is that the one where like she's like, I'm like, I know that Karen Wheeler's a baddie, so we'll talk about this later.
SPEAKER_00:Not only turn into Sylvester Stallone, but is totally cool and fine with smoking like five or six regular human guys, not demogorgons or demodogs or any of that stuff, but like regular human men.
SPEAKER_02:Like we know Karen Wheeler's a baddie. Um but yeah, I like, I like, I wish the characters would talk more. That being said, I know what you're talking about with the too much talking. There's the scene right before, because one of the big one of the moments that I liked is Max finally comes out of her coma and wakes up, but oh my god, she was like, it was reminding me of that TikTok. It's like my father worked in a farm restaurant, and I'm like, I'm like, Max, you have to run. And she's talking to Holly, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just took forever. I'm like, why am I having like, why are they having a 20-minute conversation? I'm like, you've seen that you've not been able to escape before. Will you please go? I was like, I'm gonna be frustrated if Max stays in his coma any longer.
SPEAKER_00:The problem was it wasn't like they weren't saying things that were useful or meaningful to each other, but it really broke the pace. Like it broke the tension of the moment because you're sitting there, they're talking, and you're like, this is not what you would be doing.
SPEAKER_02:And they're flashing back to like what's going on in like, you know, not in the upside down coma world and actual Hawkins, and I feel like I'm watching Jurassic Park, the kitchen scene with the Velociraptors.
SPEAKER_00:Uh you know what, that, but see, to me, uh here, I'm gonna defend it for a second. Okay. That's I mean, that's fine. I just say it. That scene actually to me read as an homage. Okay. So not they didn't that was actually them saying, Hey, you know what would be really cool? Let's pay homage to one of the tensest, most like crazy scenes in movie history, which is the Jurassic Park, you know, kitchen scene, and let's do that. And that's what that they did there. And so I I appreciated that. We have to be quiet. As an OG Jurassic Park fan, I appreciated that.
SPEAKER_02:But pull poor Lucas is like, no, I have to keep playing K but Kate Bush.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I like how Vicky, Robin's girlfriend at the at the present time that of this episode, like finally gets in on it and like is looped in. Um, see, like what else? I'm gonna go in with what else I liked, okay? And then we'll go to what I didn't like, and then you can go. Does that work for you? That works for you. And then I can rest my vocal cords. Okay, so what else did I like? Uh, Karen Wheeler, duh, my girl. First off, uh, mom of the century. The only thing Karen Wheeler's ever done that's bad is considering, you know, hooking up with like a 17-year-old. But whatever. I mean, Ted Wheeler, he's just like the most boring man. Um, so she had her moment with the wine bottle. Um, listen to Fernando in the first part. Well, this time she comes out of her like hospital room because she hears on the speaker, like, like, because they they gone through the speaker system and they're like, Lucas, like you have to run. And she knows that that's one of her son's friends. It's like, mm-mm. So she still can't really talk from where the demogorgon like sliced her throat up. But she saves them them from the demodogs or whatever they're called, I don't know. Um, by throwing like the oxygen tank, like she knew enough to throw that into the washer. It has the like, so they get distracted by that, it explodes, and there's Karen Wheeler, like a baddie.
SPEAKER_00:I'm sus scientifically, if that would actually do that. Because those bottles, those bottles, those bottles of of air are made to withstand quite a beating.
SPEAKER_02:In the 80s?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, whatever. Anyway, my girl's a baddie.
SPEAKER_00:It's not it's not a canned air. This is it's like industrial oxygen that you would use.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, Karen Wheeler's a baddie. We don't know at this point. Nobody knows what what's going on with Ted Wheeler, no one cares, I guess. Um so uh my boys, Dustin and Steve, everyone was all like up in arms about how they weren't getting along. When it was clear that the reason why they were arguing is because Dustin was grieving. Steve had been trying to reach out and get through to Dustin and just couldn't. But my I felt like those those were the part that those scenes, and I know Dustin and Steve, especially Steve, are my favorite characters. Um, so maybe I'm biased here. But I think those were the best scenes from the back half of the season. But they finally made up. There's this moment where Dustin like freaks out. He's like, No, he's like, you can't do that. He's like, I can't, I can't do it again. I can't, I can't, I can't lose you. And they hug, and you see in Steve's eyes the realization of just everything that's been going on, and it was a beautiful moment.
SPEAKER_00:Specifically, um, those two when they are fighting and they're in the upside down going through that building, and what made those scenes even more uh um stand out even more as good scenes was because we were intermensing between them and Nancy and Jonathan almost dying and breaking up and like it's that was one of those scenes where like I get the importance of it, but the way they constructed it and the way with with with the the tension.
SPEAKER_02:So you like those scenes?
SPEAKER_00:Nancy and Jonathan? No, that was terrible. Okay, yeah. The way they did it was terrible. I get why they had to do it.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, but did you like Dustin and Steve scenes? That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_00:That's and it they mirrored each other as they were going through, and that's why you know it stood out even more as to why those scenes were good and Nancy and Jonathan were bad, because they were right next to each other having these conversations, and it was like, what are we doing?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I also, when they were fighting before they made up, like Dustin just started like basically wailing on Steve. And you could tell, like, Steve could have easily like body checked Dustin, like Steve was a jock, but he didn't it. Like at one point he kind of shoved him off of him, but he because you know he they love each other. And then they have another scene after that where basically Dustin says, you know, solving a Rubik's cube because there was a Rubik's Cube in the room where that they were stuck, and he's like, doesn't mean you know you're an intelligent person, and then Steve's basically like kind of said, you know, you're my best friend, and like they hugged again, and it was just I love them. They're they've their relationship and their bond, I think, has been one of the strongest and most consistent parts of Stranger Things, and I do love me some consistency. Um, and I I just I thought those were very well done. Um, I do think when Max finally came out of the coma, that was nice. That was a good scene. I enjoyed that.
SPEAKER_00:That whole like the whole tension of them getting to the hospital, right, and getting her out of there and all that stuff, even the even as ridiculous as continuing to play the music the whole way through was, um, that was a very good sequence that that paid off, and and they didn't break the pacing in weird ways like they have it had a tendency to this season.
SPEAKER_02:Um obviously Delightful Derek, which I'll get to my favorite part, is where he was in the finale, but Delightful Derek was once again fantastic, and then kind of some side characters, Mr. Clark, their AV, I think he was like their AV teacher or something.
SPEAKER_00:And science teacher.
SPEAKER_02:And science teacher finally gets like pulled into it. Um, and then Murray and Erica, the team up because they went over to go get Mr. Clark together. There's not there was not enough Erica for me. I like her, she's my favorite side character. You can't spell America without Erica.
SPEAKER_00:They had such a big cast, it's really difficult to give those side characters, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Or you can give a side character and make them their main character. Or yeah, yeah, yeah. Turn Holly Wheeler into a main character. Um things I did not like. I think the actress that they brought in to play, Holly Wheeler, is a great little actress.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um I get why they had to have that she was kind of the catalyst as she was stuck in that upside down, but I I think that we could have solved that earlier. Um, and I know like the whole thing with the kids and all of that, but it I felt like I would love to see like a chart of screen time because I feel like she had more screen time than any of the OG kids.
SPEAKER_01:It's very possible.
SPEAKER_02:Like she seemed like if you told me, like, let's say I sat down and watched the show, having never seen any of the other seasons, like some freak. Like some people do that. I'd be like, Oh, is she like the main character?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she's got a lot of screen time.
SPEAKER_02:Whereas before, I would always be like, Oh, Mike and L are like the main characters, where I would say, like, I felt like 11 had like the least screen time. Yeah, I still like Mike. He he like Mike this season really matured, guru and me. Um, I'm trying to think anything like okay, so when it comes to stuff I didn't like, um, I feel like I shouldn't I just feel like the these episodes leading up to the finale were just so drawn out. They just like I said, it felt very felt it felt like we just kept rehashing the same things we already know. Um now you mentioned the Jancy breakup. I was glad they broke up. Um, but that breakup scene was stupid. Yeah, it's and I can honestly see how people were confused by it.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not I'm not upset with the storyline or the result of the conversation. It's that they did it the way they did it, the constant the the the the thing that was happening around them as they were doing it seems just like insane that way they did it.
SPEAKER_02:It did it was like a 10-minute breakup that still left people confused. Yeah, we were not confused, but people were still and like can I just say that like when they were talking about like the things that they didn't like, because they needed to have that conversation at some point. But Nancy was like giving like I don't like it when you like smoke weed or whatever, and he was like, I donated your pink sweater because I hate the collar pink, and then he's like, I didn't read, I don't like reading any of your articles. Like, I'm like, what in the Jonathan? Until the finale, don't consider me a fan of you. And now I love you because of the finale.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I don't like how much of a gun nut you've become. Yeah, you know, anything like that, right?
SPEAKER_02:It was just, and then like Nancy basically said, you know, like when they broke up, she she this is they kinda put the even though I still had a little bit of hope, they it was pretty much Stancy was also dead in that same scene because she was just like, Steve does have better hair than you, snap. And you know, Jonathan deserved to hear that since he mentioned the sweater thing. Um but it that was collectively shut down, and Nancy was just like, It's never been like that. I don't even she's like, I like it that Steve knows what he wants, I don't know what I want. So they kind of and I figured they might do that, but I do have some beef. Like, why did they put all those scenes in season four that made it seem like Nancy could be into Steve again? Why did they have those scenes at the in the first half of season five where he was like leaning over her shoulder and she seemed to be like into it? Well, I'll give you Were they doing like a Star Wars thing to me where it made they tried to make it seem like Finn liked Ray, and then he was like, Oh, never mind, I was just a Jedi.
SPEAKER_00:Spoiler alert for Star Wars. I will give you an answer to that because you finally you finally admitted to me the other day that you saw this and realized that I what I was beefing about. The reason that they did all that stuff in season four and then didn't address it in season five is because they forgot, just like they forgot how they ended season four going into season five. And I I feel like finally you saw somebody showed you like the footage of what the end of season four was like.
SPEAKER_02:I had forgotten that like that the upside down was supposedly creeping into regular Hawkins.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. No, they just put some metal plates over it.
SPEAKER_02:So did the writers.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so that is about my thoughts on part two before we get into the finale. I feel like we could have trimmed that down. We could have it it was just it was one of those things where I was like, oh gosh, we're gonna have a two-hour finale coming up, and we have all these things that we haven't settled. And I thought, like, with a two-hour finale, I'm like, we're finally gonna because writing a finale is hard. Absolutely. And I was like, Absolutely, we're finally gonna have plenty of time to explain stuff. Spoiler alert, we didn't it. Um, so you go ahead now. I know you kind of interjected with me, um, but give me your good, bad, and ugly. Not the finale, but just those episodes will you.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I mean, the good, like again, Nancy Wheeler scene was really good.
SPEAKER_02:The the the Oh, wait, I have to interrupt. Sorry. Um, sorry, it's my brain fault. She's back, folks. Um the white stuff. I'm very confused in the room where like Nancy and Jonathan thought they were dying. Oh, the like non-view or whatever that is, explain why the white stuff all of a sudden they stopped.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:They need the plot, the writers needed it to stop.
SPEAKER_02:Got it. Okay, now you can go. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um, yeah, like Nancy Wheeler, you know, saving the day again, even if I am dubious about the listen, fucking. You mean Karen Wheeler? Yeah, Karen, Karen Wheeler. Listen, guys, we're in a show where with a wormhole that's le sending DD themed creatures into it. I'm not that concerned about the scientific accuracy of most of this stuff. So I'm gonna let that one go. Um the homage to Jurassic Park kitchen scene there was like really, really good, and I and I appreciate it. And and I will forever maintain I they knew exactly what they were doing. Like that's what they they were it wasn't a rip-off, it was a homage in my in my mind. Okay. Um and I think, you know, Dustin and Steve, like you said, were good, and there was some stuff around the edges that like it's just so hard for me to even remember it after the I wish we had recorded these three. I wish you hadn't been sick. Full stop. And then I wish we had been able to record our thoughts on these three episodes. That's the only reason why I didn't know the finale before seeing the finale because seeing the finale makes it hard. Um I think that my bad is again the exposition. This was so much expositional talk and so much conversation. I think that I give them credit for trying to explain, actually explain what was going on between Hawkins and the upside down and the other world where um Vecna's hanging out with the wormhole thing. Like I give them credit for at least attempting it, but again, every time they have to explain something, they gotta sit down and we gotta have a you know, it's like we're going to school. Here's the props, here's our draw, we're drawing on the stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, there's just better ways to do that stuff and have have a little bit of um faith in your audience to understand to to connect some dots. Hey, listen here, folks. Okay, considering some of the stuff we're gonna talk about later in this episode, I get why they maybe don't have faith in their fan base to connect some dots.
SPEAKER_02:I think they're forgetting what their own work though, because I listened to an interview with them and they were like, well, I guess. And I just thought of something else, too, before we get into the finale. I am really sick of this of every time somebody makes a TikTok about it or says something about like the flashback scenes with Henry when he was supposedly in school with like Joyce and Hopper, and they're like, Oh, well, it's explained in the play. Like the big like whatever is in the briefcase in the cave, like the I think it's like the mind flare, like particles. I'm here to tell you right now. That's how we don't care. We don't care.
SPEAKER_00:We don't care. I do not care what's in a play. This is your this is your called your coastal elitism showing. If you're like, oh, go watch the Broadway show. I am like eight-hour drive or or a three-hour flank plane ride from that off-Broadway show.
SPEAKER_02:I think you can only see it on Broadway in New York, and I think you can see it like in the UK, and let's say it's and it'd be if I would be willing to be like, okay, watch the play if they had uploaded the play to Netflix and like released that before they release this upcoming season, sure. And then like watch this play, it connects. I find it kind of offensive as a fan, and I really don't like when other fans talk down to fans and then are like, oh, well, just watch the play, as if we all have the time, the means, and the money to do so. Some of us are employed, and like you said, don't look at the city.
SPEAKER_00:So I think after the finale, some of those people that were doing that are eating a little bit of crow because I saw a TikTok that said they changed that what was in the briefcase on the Broadway show and the show are different.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So they broke canon and or whatever the whatever, whatever canon.
SPEAKER_02:It seems like a lot of people keep saying that, and I'm like, if not it's one thing, and there is, I think, a scene in the finale, supposedly, where there was like a character in a play that like shows up in a very like in part.
SPEAKER_00:It's one thing to wink and show people things from the play and be like, haha, if you saw the play, this enriches your experience.
SPEAKER_02:You have it as a central part of your plot, like how Henry connected with the mind flayer, which is.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, listen, I'm just happy that the rumors about there being a basically a flashback episode that was the play, essentially, didn't happen. Because that would have if you if you think I sound down on this season of The Stranger Things right now, you should just be glad that that didn't happen. I am gonna say one more thing, and I'm not gonna say it's I'm not gonna say it's bad or ugly or good or whatever. Um and I've never been in this situation personally, so I have nothing to add to it whatsoever. The Will Coming Out scene was a little awkward and a little Yeah and I'm the and I and I don't understand I get well, okay. I understand it was written by straight people technically why they had everybody in the cast show up to sit there and listen. And you should hear this too. I I tell because then they because they have to get it into everybody's ear holes so they don't have to spend the next 15 minutes of the show going, oh by the way, oh by the way, oh by the way. But it was just it didn't seem it felt very well.
SPEAKER_02:We have this epic moment we're leaning up to, and it's like, oh wait, never mind. And it just it was odd.
SPEAKER_00:So Will said very specifically, I have to get this off my chest because we can't I can't have this hanging over me going forward in this confrontation with Vecna. And then that made me feel like, okay, Will's gonna get in there and do some some stuff, and he needs to make sure that his vulnerabilities are all off the table. But it didn't really play it out either.
SPEAKER_02:So it kind of just I just think the dialogue was funny.
SPEAKER_00:Like because Well, the dialogue this entire season has been terrible.
SPEAKER_02:Like when Robin came out to Steve in season three, that was a very well done scene. Yeah. And I know they're capable of it. Just because we said we think it was awkward doesn't mean that we're against the storyline or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00:Not at all. And and again, like again, it was I'm speaking from a strange standpoint. Of not being able to remotely like say I've been in that situation, but it was just it was a very weird scene having all those people there. There were so many people just sitting there like watching, and it's like, okay, what are we doing?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so um then the finale drops on New Year's Eve.
SPEAKER_00:Two whole hours.
SPEAKER_02:And I feel like you and I have some disagreements on that, but as a whole, um I like the finale. I'm satisfied with the end, if this is in fact the end, which we'll get into in a minute. Upside down. Um I think that's like I can't believe I feel like so many people are hating on it, and I'm like, what did you guys expect? Like it honestly I think when you wait so long between seasons and you have you give fans time to create and concoct all these crazy theories, and then when your your ending kind of goes just like you said, like you caught it. I think you said something earlier today, like a paint by the numbers, like it was by the numbers, yeah. By by plan, but I'm like that's actually a a use of like good storytelling and the fact that even though it sucked when Eleven died, did she die? Did she not die? I don't know, um did not survive, that sucked, but like it felt like it was always gonna be that way.
SPEAKER_00:Made sense, it was how you had to resolve that.
SPEAKER_02:Um it's I just think that a lot like to me, and I was going to criticize if a bunch of characters did die. Because I don't think that you need to have a bunch of death, destruction, and sadness to make a good finale. If you're doing that to try to make an epic finale, that means you're a tryhard, unless the deaths like serve a purpose. Like if they had just killed off the fan favorite Steve Harrington, which they get did a fake out, and I almost shut off Netflix, I was like, I'm done with this. Um, if they had done that, that's just because they know he's the fan favorite, they want to make us sad.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:There's nothing wrong with a happy ending when it's done well. And I think for what they had to work with and what they left us with, I think they did a good job and they didn't and missed them. There's if we're gonna nitpick stuff, I can nitpick till till the cows come home. I don't know why that what the way that's a phrase.
SPEAKER_00:Um but I'm on the other side of nitpicking these days.
SPEAKER_02:Like they like if if you want to nitpick, like I'll really nitpick. But I think as a whole, they like I felt very satisfied with the finale. Now, if they had killed off Steve, um, I I looked at you. I was like, because they had him, he's like he bouts to fall off the radio tower because they had to do that to like close or get into the wormhole. I don't remember. Um, and the screen like went to black for seven seconds, apparently. And I was like, uh-uh. I was like, I'm done. I was like, shut off, shut off Netflix. I was like, I'm done. And then Jonathan finally, finally proved himself to be a worthy character and grabbed Steve's hand and saved him. So now I can no longer hate on Jonathan. Um I did think that Callie, Elle's like sister, like one of the other guys, I thought she was gonna be like bad. I didn't try. I was like hopper. I was like, I don't trust this girl. She and then a big fat nothing burger. And then I felt bad. No, it wasn't nothing.
SPEAKER_00:She she said nothing, but like providing the alternate point of view, the realistic point of view to Elle that is hey, listen, we can defeat Vecna, but if you if either of us are still alive at the end, none of this ends.
SPEAKER_02:I meant like it was a nothing burger, like thinking that she we had so many of us thought she was gonna be like the villain. Like I thought she was working with Vecna. I do think it's funny that like everyone's like, Does Vecna know he's caught Vecna? Because they call him that from like the DD game, but it's like Henry. I saw TikTok that was like, Who the heck is that?
SPEAKER_00:Who's Vecna?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um I enjoyed the finale. Everyone was like, Oh, they defeated Vecna quickly. And I'm like, okay, but we've had all of season four and then all the beginning of these long drawn-out episodes where we've been trying to defeat Vecna. I personally would have been bored if it had just been so much just like fighting Vecna. Like, I'm like, let's defeat him. I'm done with this. Um ultimately, I guess you could say I was right that the military was the big bad because it was a big they were big and bad enough that that's why eleven died. But or you could be like, or that was nothing because then nothing happened. But am I wrong? She had to die, so they would leave her alone. They were gonna keep like going after her, or did she die? I don't know. She had to go away, she had to make it seem like she was gone.
SPEAKER_00:We'll discuss that at that point in a moment.
SPEAKER_02:So, in a way, I was correct that ultimately the military was still the big bad. Um, we got delightful Derek saying, turning to Vecna and saying, suck my fat one. Can I just say that he's the bright spot of season five for me?
SPEAKER_00:He was for sure.
SPEAKER_02:He's so delightful.
SPEAKER_00:Um and I thought when they first introduced him, I thought, mm, they're gonna overuse this and I'm gonna hate it. But it did not. They were able to keep a balance.
SPEAKER_02:His little wave to Mike. Yeah, they were. He's like, Mike's like my best friend.
SPEAKER_00:They were able to keep a balance with Derek. I was worried when they first brought him in that that he was gonna be obnoxious, but they were able to get it.
SPEAKER_02:Perfectly balanced. He is delightful, Derek, from now on. Um, so yeah, they do defeat Vecna. I didn't think it was too quick. And people were like, Where are the demodogs? Where were those? I'm like, where are the bats that killed Eddie? That's like what I was wondering. Yeah, we didn't see the bats at all this season. Um, do they like hibernate? I don't know. I don't think I think it was always gonna be unsatisfying the way they got rid of Vecna. That's just when you have a villain so built up, but I'm like, I didn't need like another hour and a half of defeating Vecna. So maybe that's my un the unpopular opinion of the century.
SPEAKER_00:But honestly, when he gets impaled when Elle impales him, I'm I'm assuming he's dead. And that was satisfying for me. And I've told you multiple times, I was a little off-put by the whole Joyce decapitating him. And if Joyce had just taken one swing and it was done, that would have been fine. But the fact that she likes hacking her hacking away away at his neck for like 30 seconds while we're getting all the reactions. That was a bit much. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02:I thought that was like think of all the trauma that she put that he put her family through, though.
SPEAKER_00:I understand.
SPEAKER_02:She lost Bob. She thought her son was dead. All this, like, he I mean, at one point I thought they were gonna redeem him and that he was gonna, I thought I was like, I was like, oh my god, they're gonna redeem Henry because it turns out like he's part of the he and the mind flayer are like connected, which I also always thought. I thought that was common knowledge that either he controlled the mind flayer, the mind flayer controlled him, and then I come to find out that no one else thought that, including you, and I'm like, oh, I'm either a genius or not paying attention, we don't know. Um I thought for a second, I was like, oh, or I was like, are we gonna like Anakin? Because they referenced Return of the Jedi.
SPEAKER_00:Because my thought Anakin Skywalker, this when when the in when season four Anakin's a good man. When season four ended, I and they def quote air quotes defeated Vecna. I assumed season five was gonna be fighting the mind flare. And it kind of was, but what they did in the interim was go, you know what? We wrote this really good, compelling villain in Vecna. Jamie Campbell's really good. And the actor is really good. We should just try to find a way to integrate that back into the story. I'm a little disappointed. I think they could have integrated Vecna back into the story, but also made the mind flare more of a I just always thought that either one was controlling the other.
SPEAKER_02:Like I thought that like the whole time. I want to know, and I guess we're just sort of forgetting that season four exists. I'm like, what about the clocks? I thought like time travel would be involved in it. Anyway, those are things that like nitpicky, nitpicky. But I really thought for a second, I was.
SPEAKER_00:Can we go back to just calling them grandfather clocks?
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm gonna call him a Vecna. Every time we'll see a house on Zillow, I'll be like, oh, they have a Vecna clock, and it makes Daniel so mad. Send um pictures to Daniel of Vecna clocks, please. Um, but yeah, I I thought they were gonna redeem Henry for a second, and then it was like, and I was like, ooh, I was like, this is gonna like I wouldn't mind it if he helps them, but think of like all the bad he's already done.
SPEAKER_03:Like Darth Vader.
SPEAKER_02:No, shut up. Leave Anakin alone. He's a good man, Savannah. Um because they have that moment where he and Will are talking, and Will was like, You were just a boy, it wasn't your fault. I mean, he still bashed the guy's head in with a brake.
SPEAKER_00:I told you the whole time from the moment we saw that, and we saw that is like, yeah, he was defending himself, so he knocks the guy out with a rock. Little boy. Fine. I that would have been fine. But then to just keep on bashing the guy's head in, okay, that's that's uh that's a bit much.
SPEAKER_02:Um but then they done it, so he was like, No, it's too, it's too late for me, basically. And we're like, oh, okay. Um but yeah, I don't the people saying that I'm like, what did you guys like want? Now, one thing I did like, another unpopular opinion, I liked it that we had like 45 minutes of this is what happened after. Let me let me I I I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00:Let me give my brief like thoughts before we get to the pro the the epilogue, which is essentially where we're gonna get into a few theories and then maybe a couple other crazy things that TikTok has come up with. Um I'm known Stranger Things hater since probably the end of season three. Um I didn't season four was terrible. Didn't need to be happening. This was an abysmal mess, season five. Um but what they had to work with, they found a way to land the plane. It's missing an engine, the wheels didn't come out, um, part of the wing's gone, the nobody's piling it. Nobody with an actual license, like Nathan Fielder's not on the plane. Nobody's pilot nobody who knows what they're doing is piling it. But they managed somehow to land the plane with mostly everybody alive.
SPEAKER_02:I was gonna say you said you liked the finale. He did.
SPEAKER_00:It was paint by the numbers.
SPEAKER_02:You were like, I can't believe I'm defending Stranger Things. Go on.
SPEAKER_00:It was paint by the numbers, but they they managed to pull off an ending that didn't absolutely just suck. And more to the point, and now we'll get into the epilogue section. I do actually appreciate the way that they had left it with L. Is she alive? Is she not? Because the story ends with L dying. Yes. To sacrificing herself because she's been she realizes that her sister was right. This is never gonna end as long as she's alive. Or they know the military is the ultimate villain. The military is gonna continue to come after her and go to date. And by the way, all those pregnant ladies down. They were in the upside down, right? They're just all dead, yeah, I guess. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um and so I think they want us to forget that.
SPEAKER_00:I appreciate the way that they ended the story with Elle sacrificing herself, and then the very last thing we see is Mike and the group playing DD, and at the end of it, they finish their game, and Mike tells them, Well, here's what I think maybe could have happened. And and I truly believe this is Mike's way of dealing and coping with the trauma.
SPEAKER_02:I believe that El is at the waterfalls. Because you know what? I want to believe Elle is a character that went through so much trauma and pain, and it just what a tragic character, honestly. It's she's just a child. That really it sucked, and I get why people are so upset, but at the same time, it did serve the plot. Like it was if somebody was gonna pass on or die or go away, it was always gonna be her. Um, so I am choosing to also cope and believe that because you know, she didn't have the nosebleed, they were doing that thing. It would have been hard for her to project and use those powers when she was talking to him. So I'm thinking it could be. I think she pulled, they pulled an alpha button.
SPEAKER_00:She's never been able to how did she communicate with I think it could be real.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. Did she I don't I don't want I mean in the 80s, how'd she get on the plane, how'd she get a passport? There's all kinds of stuff we can nitpick people, but I'm gonna be like the kids, I believe.
SPEAKER_00:I don't, and the reason I don't is because they were shooting those speaker things out when they came out, and so if she had come out with them, they would she would have been immediately affected. It's nice to believe that I agree, and that's why well no, this is the good thing they did was that they left it just open enough for interpretation that you're gonna be able to form camps, and people are gonna say this is what it I this is what I believe, and people are gonna say this is what I believe, and that is a good thing that helps a show too.
SPEAKER_02:You finally watched Wicked for Good. Was it not like the end of Wicked? I've talked to so many people about this. I'm like, it's just is L like pulling out like an elf ball? What's going on? Um, okay, so but yeah, I liked you were somebody that was like, we're gonna spend 45 minutes now saying where people are up to. I loved it.
SPEAKER_00:They could have cut a lot of that stuff down. Yeah. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I enjoyed that. Um, so we're just gonna say, let's talk about a little bit more of the bad. Um, Sarah Connor, okay, I guess Linda Hamilton, Dr. K in the show. I'm glad that um Linda Hamilton got a paycheck, I guess, because I don't know what she's been in recently, but what a waste of Linda Hamilton's acting. Um basically, this is how I'm writing off the military. Okay, what drives me nuts about people, and even you, even though you said you were joking, is that Max, one, 18 months have passed. We have an 18-month time jump. Daniel turns to me and he's like, and I've seen so many people like, how was Max able to graduate?
SPEAKER_00:I pause the show, by the way.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm like, uh, well, one, summer school classes, they probably knew she was in a coma. They probably had people to help. She's not an idiot. It's very that is like of all the plot holes, that is like the most easiest one to come up with reasons that yes, Max could have graduated. She could have taken extra classes, had extra help. I can't believe that people were obsessing about that, but they're all but then they're willing to let it go of how was Hopper, who I thought was presumed dead by the town. But I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, how do you see the sheriff again?
SPEAKER_02:No one down military people, Nancy too. Um, he's the cop again. Basically, none of these people No consequences. No consequences. So the way I'm writing this off in my head is that that branch of the military under like Dr. K and her people had kind of been going off script, sure. Trying to get not really following their own rules. So when L went away, Dr. K was like, all right, pack it up. This never happened.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It was almost like the what is it, men in black, like the the little thing they click, like it's done. So I'm like, if we're gonna like pick on a plot hole, pick on that one. Max being able to graduate, fine.
SPEAKER_00:Um, before you go forward anymore, I need you to confirm two things for the people on here. I okay I paused and said, How in the world did she graduate?
SPEAKER_02:And I gave you perfect reasons why.
SPEAKER_00:Before that, I've also paused when they were fighting Vecna. I know I'm going back a little bit. Oh my gosh. What did I say? I said, pocket sand when she threw the sand at him. And I saw TikToks all over the place, and I was like, ah, you know, still don't know what you're referring to. King of the Hill, if you just watch one of the best shows ever, Hannah. Um Peacemaker. We need to watch Peacemaker so we can watch.
SPEAKER_02:I'll even let her just watch season one.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, um, I really liked that. I again I like the happy endings. Steve, of course, you'd become a coach.
SPEAKER_00:Didn't he play basketball? What's he pick coaching baseball for?
SPEAKER_02:Okay. I've seen that's so ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00:Everybody listen, wait, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_02:Did not everybody do three sports in school. We're not gonna get into the theory until later, but I've seen just messing with her, everybody.
SPEAKER_00:I'm just messing with her. I've seen all these people nitpicking this ending to death on TikTok. I don't care about it, but I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_02:As if good athletes typically don't play like a fall sport, a winter sport, and a spring sport.
SPEAKER_00:I did, they were just all running.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, um, anyway. Because I'm not Andy's a teacher, we love that. Um Robin is at college, presume that she and Vicky broke up. That was one thing that annoyed me is that we didn't the last we saw was of Vicky, which Dr. K had like captured them. So I'm like, what's going on? But at the same time, I'm willing to forego that because how often do you typically stay with like your first romance? I'll say that there is a little bit of beef that I have, as I felt like at this point now they used Vicky and Robin to serve Will's story, and I think that's kind of dumb. But I I'll be willing to let that go. Obviously, um the graduation scene. Um, I did point out why are they wearing orange. I thought their collars were green. Again, we'll get to that in a little bit. Um, but I was like, well, maybe they it's like a side collar. And then I was thinking as like a movie person, because Daniel's on my head all the time. I was like, and I know this from where I've done commercials and stuff before, they usually tell you not to wear green in case they have in case them time, and I know you said they probably wasn't green screen, but just in case they have to do green screen work, they will tell you to avoid wearing green. And maybe a whole group of people like that sitting, you know, as p graduates do, maybe they were like, let's invent instead of having them in white, let's make them wear orange. Okay. Um, but I really like that Dustin honored Eddie at the graduation because in the season where Eddie's like, and I'm gonna look the principal in the eye, I'm gonna flip him the bird, grab my diploma, and they referenced that. I love that obviously Eddie and Steve stay close. Honestly, it seemed like everybody but Mike got a happy ending, but from things I've read, the storyteller, which is Mike's role, doesn't always get the happy ending. Um, so um Nancy, I I will pick a little bit aga about her ending. I'm again, I'm fine that she and Steve didn't end up together, but she's wanting to be a serious journalist, and they said she dropped out of school as somebody who went to school for journalism. They would not think maybe they maybe the 80s were a different time. I don't know. I think that would have been frowned upon.
SPEAKER_00:I liked the You just needed a notepad and a pack of cigs.
SPEAKER_02:I liked the all four of the older kids on the roof. People are like, all these characters barely ever hunt out, but they're trauma bonded, they're bonded forever by what they were doing.
SPEAKER_00:It was like in Wicked for Good.
SPEAKER_02:It was like when you say goodbye.
SPEAKER_00:It was like in Wicked for Good when they had the flashback to the scenes of all those characters hanging out because you didn't actually get to see them hanging out in the world.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because they cut it from the theater. I could have used three Wicked's. Thank you. Now you're my voice is coming back because you're making me mad. But I thought that was well done. I just I thought it was, and then I really liked kind of the passing of the torch, how Holly and Delightful Derek and their little friends they were getting ready to play DD and Mike shuts the door. Um, some stuff I've seen people nitpick about the haircuts. Um, guys, that short hair that Karen Wheeler and Nancy had, that like every I mean my mom still rocks Nancy's haircut to this day in our year 2026, but like that short hair was very popular, like Princess Diana back then. So of course, like you've seen that both Nancy and Karen have gone through like the trends of early 80s and the haircuts like that.
SPEAKER_00:I know that you know our listeners are generally not these people, but I think that the the younger generations watching media that are based, especially media that is based in another time previous, they need to take that and remember that things were different than when they are now, and you can't necessarily apply the same things to you know what I mean. Like short hair was just a thing back then.
SPEAKER_02:I've seen them even criticize where they're like, so is Nancy into women now? Because Robin said, How are the babes? No, we said babes in like 2000 to refer to men and women. That's one of the things. Well, I still think it was awkward, and I agree with you. But like talking about the time period, I have to remind myself that Will this was the 80s when he came out and why it was such a big deal. So I do have to remind you. Yeah, which is um, but I liked I and then Hopper and Joyce um getting engaged. I thought that was really nice. Um, it showed, you know, Hopper spent so much of his time mourning Sarah. I mean, God knows we only saw it 50 times this season in the flashbacks. And he kind of told Mike where they meet, you know, in front of that like I guess memorial thing for Hawkins at the in the park before graduation, that like you can't spend your life always wondering what if um you have to find a way to move on. Like basically saying, like, don't do what I've done. We have to find a we have to find a basically we have to find a way to move on and move forward. Um but I thought it was nice, I thought like I I like the finale. Like I as a whole, like, yes, and I know in this podcast we've nitpicked it to death, but I think they hit the mark like they were supposed to, and I didn't need 50,000 deaths to be epic. I liked that. I I what's wrong with wanting a happy ending? Also, um, you know, for the the Gen Xers, all you have to do to make those people happy is put in some Prince song on they love Prince. Listen, Prince is great, but it's always funny how the Gen X people are like always like, oh my god, Prince. Um, the scene with Purple Rain, that that was some and I felt like that was the best acting I had seen from Finn and Millie this season. Yeah. Was that part together? Um all right, so anything else that you liked about the finale?
SPEAKER_00:Uh you know, again, they had a mess on their hands, they somehow managed to land it. I'll be genuine when I'll say I I don't know that this was better than, but they I think made a more satisfying conclusion of Stranger Things than Game of Thrones pool. Yeah, Game of Thrones is a flop. Like the like I like Game of Thrones as a show better, but and I'm probably never gonna go back and watch either of these shows again, but the ending of Game of Thrones has basically put a nail on me ever wanting to go reading.
SPEAKER_02:And your ending, I need to say this. Your ending is not because of Generis, it's just the way because Danny was always going to go insane.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, I my my concerns had nothing with.
SPEAKER_02:As if book readers know this, but I think it was jarring for the people that watch that show because it's like suddenly they put the foot on the gas pedal and the way they wrote everything was just in a mo in a more literal way than you, I think, you're even meaning.
SPEAKER_00:And this is where everybody who's just heard me say I'm over nitpicking is gonna be like Daniel, but you're nitpicking right now. But I'm not nitpick nitpicking right now because they spent the first five seasons of Game of Thrones making it explicitly to the plot important about how long it takes to get around Westeros, and then season the last two seasons really, all of a sudden they're like, Yeah, we're just super natural. It was like supernatural, like, oh, we're just there in a couple days, no big deal.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think when Game of Thrones fell off, you can attribute to that when they didn't have the books to follow anymore and they kind of had to go off on their own. Okay, whereas Stranger Things is not based on a book. Um, I don't think you can say when the Stranger Things ended in season one that they envisioned this would be their ending for now.
SPEAKER_00:No, and that's why what I would say everybody who says they're disappointed because they felt like the Dover brothers had a plan. My brothers and sisters, I don't think they had a plan. You guys you gotta stop thinking. The concepts of a plan. Yeah, you gotta stop thinking that these people have plans. Okay, they get paid to write a season of a show. They might have an idea here or there floating around, maybe something scribbled in a notebook about oh, well, if we if we do well and we get picked up, maybe I can go this direction. The nobody is putting these shows together with big plans.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I also watched an interview where the basically the interviewer like called them out. He's like, So Robin and Vicky, they're like, Did they break up? And they're like, Yeah, they're like, no high school couples ever stay together, like that's like zero percent chance. And then the guy was like, What about Max and Lucas? And it's like they forgot, like, and they're like, Oh, well, that's different.
SPEAKER_00:Um Okay, so now Okay, wait, let's wait one more time.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you got one more thing to say? Just a little bit more. I think we we are living in an age though where people expect so much because of the the the internet I think is ruining TV somewhat because people they sometimes the fan theories, this is a good segue into this, sure, might be better than what we get. And I think people expected so much that they can't enjoy what we got when I think what we got was a very serviceable finale and one that I can as a fan be satisfied with. I felt the same way with the summer I turned pretty. Um, I know I'm getting I know I am getting a movie for that, but I don't I would have been fine without a movie. I'm trying to think of the last time like a finale like snatched my wig and blew me away, and I honestly I can't think of anything I can think of good, like the Mad Men finale was good.
SPEAKER_00:Um Mad Men had kind of you know, the last couple seasons of Mad Men had fallen off a little bit. I feel like Ted Lasso's fin finale in air quotes was satisfying and good, but it wasn't like some amazing thing. Same with Mazel.
SPEAKER_02:But like I'm talking about like I think people wanted like wig snatching, like this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. Moments.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, what did they want the camera to just go to black for like 15 seconds? Like the sopranos? Like, what'd they want?
SPEAKER_02:I have no idea. That's why I said I think the internet's built up. Yeah, yeah. People we've we made some higher expectations. And then I will like you said it earlier. Again, like you're you and I are defending the finale after crapping on the screen.
SPEAKER_00:You said it earlier. I w I write. Writing endings is hard.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think, and I think sometimes you either fall into two camps, you either go completely back. One of the one that I hate the most is when they to they're like, let's achieve a full circle moment, but at the expanse of character growth.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:How I mean your mother looking at you, worst finale ever. Um or they try to make it epic by killing off a bunch of people and try to get this emotional punch that's not needed. Steve, there's no reason for Steve Harrington to die. No. Other than that, they would have killed off who I believe is probably the fan favorites. Um it sucks that 11 is no longer with us. I choose to believe she is looking at those waterfalls. I mean, even if she is even if she's certainly.
SPEAKER_00:Even if Mike's fantasy is true, she's still never gonna see him again. She's gonna be alone, they're gonna be apart for the rest of their lives. All right, so even if that's true.
SPEAKER_02:Um today, at the time that you are listening to this podcast, is January um 6th. We are recording on January 5th. Today is January 6th.
SPEAKER_00:We're recording this on January 5th. It is currently 6 29 p.m. And the reason we are timestamping this is just so in case something insane happens on the 7th, that we can say, we can be some of those people that says we talked about it before it happened.
SPEAKER_02:All right, Daniel. It's gonna happen. Is Stranger Things really over? Why don't you tell everybody about a little theory called Conformity Gate that has taken over TikTok and I think it's made its way to Instagram reels, which is shocking because usually stuff waits like six months. Tell us a little bit about Conformity Gate because my throat hurts.
SPEAKER_00:All right, so there's several insane individuals on the internet who have apparently watched this season over and over and over and over. They're not satisfied with the ending, and they have convinced themselves that there is going to be a secret ninth episode dropping on January 7th.
SPEAKER_02:Because there's seven seconds, and Elle was training for it, seven seconds with Steve Fell, Joyce found Will on the seventh day.
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot of the die, the the twenty-sided D20 was on a seven. Um, and so what they've decided is that everything that took place after the 40-minute epilogue is actually Vecna creating a matrix, I guess, for them. They're all in Vecna's mind now, and he's created them a happy little ending for some reason.
SPEAKER_02:Why they're on why he would do that? Prison, the orange graduation robes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the orange graduation robes that should have been green is because they're in prison. All of them were sitting there with their hands in a place, kind of like Vecna stands. Will in multiple times was standing like Vecna would stand, because Will is actually gone and it was Vecna the whole time being Will. Um, what is it? Doc the Mr. Watson is a board game. Yeah. Which is one thing I thought that was just I think this is an Easter egg, a little wink in Easter egg. However, the fact that there are two places where there's this board game called Mr.
SPEAKER_02:It's in the buyer's house and it's in Mike's house.
SPEAKER_00:And the fact that Oh, Ted Wheeler lived. Can we talk about that? In previous seasons, the Duffer Brothers, one thing they did was really go heavy into nostalgia. So why didn't they use any other board game from the 80s in those spots? But instead they decided to make one for Mr. What's It, who happened to be what those younger kids on the show called Vecna this entire season. Um, what else is there? There's so much stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Well, one of the things they're saying is that because Vicky was absent at the finale, they're like, Well, Vecna didn't know who Vicky was, but I already have a hole in that because Stacy, um, the little brat from season two, who Dustin asked to dance and said no, she shows up in the graduation episode to invite him to a party. And I'm like, well, he wouldn't have known Vicky or um Stacy either. But um, before we get into this, I I kind of said it like manically, Ted Wheeler did live, if that was the actual finale, and that's how forgettable Ted Wheeler is. Uh, but I did like how he like still was like language with Dustin. Um anyway, so back to Conformity Gate. There's there's a lot that people are putting into this to the point where I'm like, I don't think this is happening, but some of it does make sense. And you agree, you and I were talking about this, and you were like, it actually does make sense that they can pull this off. I don't even think the Duffer brothers have gotta be like, what?
SPEAKER_00:And what's this? What's the character who's like breaks the fourth wall at one point? Lucas. Lucas does look at the camera, breaks the fourth wall, which was a really odd thing in hindsight. I just think that was an editing mistake. So listen, uh it's one of those things where the TikToks chart coming up, and I started just flipping past them, and eventually I just kept watching a little bit longer and watching a little bit longer. I got so sucked into it, and I got sucked into it, and it is absolutely not going to happen. It is absolutely untrue. It's really very cool that people came up with this so fast, and I think honestly, it goes to the heart of why so many people are disappointed in this finale. Yeah, is because they had built this up as something that it wasn't all for years and years. I mean, how many years has it been since season four? But even before that, people were always doing this kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02:And that's kind of what I said about like the internet. Like, sometimes the theories are better than what people are getting, but like whoever put this together did a good job.
SPEAKER_00:And and I also I want to remind you that as much as this show is just another show that has gone by for us, one of a bigger, a bigger priv profile show than we've had in a while, granted, but it's still just another show for us. To a lot of Gen Z.
SPEAKER_02:It's like their show.
SPEAKER_00:This is their show because they're like, if they are 25 now, this started when they were 15. If they are 20 now, this started when they were 10.
SPEAKER_02:I saw um a TikTok that made me feel really old, by the way. And it was like, is this how our parents felt when Friends ended? And I was like, oh my god. Because even though friends had 10 seasons, it also was 10 years of filming time. And I'm like, Oh, I'm old. I was like the saving private Ryan meme where he goes from like the old because I totally remember when the Friends finale aired. Um, my friend um and I from high school like watched it like together, like on these things called phones.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think we did have cell phones at this point. Um, and we watched the finale together, like, did Rachel get off the plane? It was like the big moment, and I'm like, So you're right about that. Like, if you grew up with it.
SPEAKER_00:It's one of those things where this is gonna, this is their this is their big show, and this is their lesson that unfortunately to a certain to some of them, I hope some of them are able to look back and fondly think about their time with Stranger Things and enjoy it and watch it over and over and get joy from it. But there are going to be people, because I've had this very feeling happen to me, this is what uh breaks the joy of some of this stuff for them because the realization that those things, this happened to me with Star Wars the things that you think are being thought about aren't being thought about. It's not that deep. They're not nobody making it is thinking about it that deeply, and there's not some theory that's secretly being fed to you that's gonna pay off.
SPEAKER_02:I had seen those pictures of like Mike and Hopper talking like almost a year ago. And and it turned out it was right the whole time. And like I had seen the images of like Steve and Dustin, but I was still worried about because I was like, what if it's all like a vet? What if what if it is all in Vecna's mind? And I was like, if Steve really isn't here. Um, I think that Netflix should hire some of these people that make these fan theories, though. Um, my my question though to those that want Conformity Gate to be real, like what do you want? And please weigh in. Um, I would what what do you want the finale to be? Do you want a bunch of people to die? Like, uh do you want every cause I feel like we had our characters for the most part were happy. I'm like, what do y'all want?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, from my perspective, where I think Conformity Gate starts, which is where when L is standing in the portal, the everybody just made it out of the upside down and the bomb is getting ready to go off and L is standing there. My understanding of the theory is that's when it starts, is that's when the wool is thrown over everybody's eye's eyes. And I think there are even some people suggesting that it wasn't actually L who talked to Mike, that was Vecna starting it all. And so I guess my perspective, if I were gonna go from there and make that true, then something breaks Mike out of it, and then they we return right back to that spot again, and then Vecna comes walking out of the portal. But then how do you end the show? Holding his head in his hands or something.
SPEAKER_02:How do you end the show? Do you end it with not get a happy ending?
SPEAKER_00:And then the military and all the kids are just there and they have a big fight and then it's over.
SPEAKER_02:And then maybe we then maybe more people we do get everything.
SPEAKER_00:Everybody dies, every day, everybody dies and no no happy endings.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, that's that's just darkness. If this actually did happen, I feel like this would be like one of the most, even if I didn't like the way they ended it, if we actually did, and we actually got another episode and they pulled off this secret, I think it would go down in history of my lifetime as one of the most iconic moments in television history, regardless of how you feel about Speaker 3.
SPEAKER_00:They did this and they were able to keep it a secret, and the only reason anybody has a sing inkling about it is because fans are putting it together, and then everybody turned on their Netflix app on January 7th, and instead of the normal ba-bum, it was the Vecna clock, and then they dropped another episode out of nowhere. I would give them props for pulling off one of the greatest like television heists of all time to keep that a secret. As somebody who is in a Dululu Phantom already.
SPEAKER_02:As somebody who is in a Dululu Phantom already, I am a Swifty. I'm like first time. We've been clowning for this stuff for years, guys, always looking for Easter eggs.
SPEAKER_00:And it's it's fun, but I'm just like, oh you have more of a chance of getting some of the things that you want out of the Taylor Swift stuff than.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I think we are getting debut Taylor's version because it's 20th anniversary coming up.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay. You're gonna start the new year that way, huh?
SPEAKER_02:I guess so. Um, so on that note, um, next time we talk to you guys, maybe we'll maybe we'll have more stranger things to talk about. Maybe not. Um, but I'm gonna go ahead and, you know, be like Derek and be like, it smells like farts. I just love delightful Derek. And that's that's all I'm that's all I'm gonna say.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Listen, everybody, thank you for tuning in. Happy New Year. Again, we will be back next week to cover all the shows we have also watched, but didn't have the time to talk about tonight. And so and so until then, bye bye.
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